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May 02 2014

Harrow Council Takes Big Step Towards Spitting Ban

harrow_council_logoHarrow Council is to press ahead with plans for fines for spitting and littering after local residents enthusiastically backed the idea. In January, the Conservative-led authority launched a petition to ask residents whether they would back a ban of spitting in public places, which has since been signed by 3,047 people. Over 1,300 signed online, with other signatures being collected in libraries, by ward councillors – and one resident obtained over 500 signatures by canvassing shoppers in Harrow town centre.

Cllr. Susan Hall, Leader of the Council, said: “I’m thrilled that the response to the petition has been so positive. Spitting in public is a vile habit which can also pose a risk to health, and both it and littering can so easily make our pavements and streets look dirty and unpleasant. By being able to issue penalty notices we can fine those who engage in this behaviour, and send a clear message that we as a borough think it’s completely unacceptable.”

Cllr. Hall continued: “I have therefore asked officers to take the necessary steps to allow fixed penalty notices to be issued for spitting and littering, and to agree on a by-law to further protect Harrow. This isn’t just an issue the Conservatives are passionate about – all parties in Harrow are united on its importance. So by starting the process now, whoever forms the administration after the election will be in a much better position to start issuing notices in time for the summer.”

Harrow Council’s move was welcomed by Bob Neill MP, the former Minister for London, who said: “Spitting in public is an anti-social, unpleasant and unhealthy practice, and I’m very pleased to see that Harrow’s Conservative administration is committed to taking action against those who blight their communities with this behaviour.”

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  1. mike mcfadden

    Great at last we have someone acting for the tax-paying residents instead of against them as it seems over the years. I hope the fines imposed are huge and NO exceptions for hard luck stories. Now Mrs Hall what about drinking alcohol on our streets and beds in shed. Which sadly seems to have been done on an industrial level.

  2. A W Hargreaves

    Will littering include dropping cigarette butts?

  3. Concerned Harrovian

    This is good news. I like it when it rains in Harrow as it gives the streets a good wash. Good point about cigarette butts because where everyone now stands outside premises to smoke there are more cigarette butts in the gutter. These then enter the surface draIns and eventually are washed out to sea polluting our sea water.

    I agree with Mike McFadden we want our councillors arguing on our behalf and not arguing WITH residents.

  4. Susan Hall

    In answer to Mike, thank you. Regarding the alcohol, its not allowed to be drunk on the streets anyway. I brought in a Borough wide exclusion zone the last time the Conservatives were in power, about 5 years ago. I will ask our Borough Commander to start enforcing that more robustly. Regarding the beds in sheds we have so far identified nearly 400 and some that have been proved to have people living in them have been issued notices by our enforcers.. A.W.Hargreaves yes it will include cigarette butts. Concerned Harrovian you will be pleased to know that I have asked Officers to purchase a couple of the industrial cleaners that are specialised for removing the chewing gum from our pavements. We have hired them before at an exorbitant amount and it makes much more sense to buy them so that we can really clean up other areas as well as the town center. I am thrilled that we have at last been able to bring in these measures its the only thing I had promised in the 7 months that I have not as yet delivered.

  5. Harrow Dude

    Susie Susie Susie just how is that Borough wide exclusion working for you. (Facts and figures please no Susie Spin) Are you saying that the Borough Commander has not been enforcing vigorously. Or are you trying to demonstrate that you have the authority to tell the Borough Commander what to do?

    Beds in Sheds, you say you have identified nearly 400. Apart from issuing notices what have you done that will actually make a difference. You say “some that have been proved to have people living in them have been issued notices by our enforcers.” What so far has been the outcome of notices and how have you helped the people been exploited by rouges landlords.

    Who is going to enforce spitting/dropping of cigarettes. How is this going to work Susie?

    As for the bubble-gum. How much does it cost to hire this piece of machinery and where have you deployed them? How much will it cost to buy them. I can’t really see you concentrating your gum removing efforts in Wealdstone, Edgware or South Harrow as you claim to wish to deploy else where . So come on Susie facts and figures please no Susie spin.

    You talk like all of this is a done deal Susie but you haven’t been elected for over 5 years. Are you so sure “It will be you” who still sits on the throne?

    Susie Susie Susie

    Tell us if it is true that you have spent all the contingency funds and Harrow Council is now seen as high risk?

    Tell us if your chosen investigating officer into the whole racism (waste of public money) scrutiny is in fact in a relationship with one of your senior officers, which clearly is a conflict of interest or was this disclosed when he interviewed for the post.

    Can you explain why the other two applicants who said it could not be done in your required time frame were rejected.

    Whilst I’ve got your focus Susie can you tell me how much the lowest paid worker you employ is paid?

    Over to you Susie

    Confirm. Clarify. Deny…

  6. garth

    the buble gum removal machine? lol who is sue going to hire to use it the oompa lumpas i would like to know the safety of the abluent used and what about acousam? also fermitus ?i am afraid susie has a bad case of costiveness and manomania in her thinking one can only imagine the mind numbing sisyphean efforts of the operator of this aparatus an expensive exercise in futility me thinks susie would make a better ring master than anything else a top hat and bull horn she already has the top coat which is ever present should be red though roll up roll up behold the circus susie all the fun of the fair JOKE SUSAN YOURE A JOKE.

    1. Harrow Dude

      Over to you Susie.

      If I have read this correctly 3047 out of the 242,400 population responded to your petition which is a conservative (no pun) 0.12%. Excuse me for chuckling Susie but if you are relying on these figures to secure your position as the first elected female leader of Harrow Council I would suggest a big push with the Susie Spin.

      Susie is 0.12% really a positive result?
      While as a resident I despise spitting in public places I still want real facts, real figures.

      What I do not want is your Susie Spin and your ‘look at what I’ve done political parlance’

      Susie would you run a petition asking how many residents are in favour of spitting?
      This has been another waste of time. Just like your racism investigation, we all knew the outcome, so what was the point.

      Susie I look forward to your riposte.

      Happy Mayday…

      1. PraxisReform

        Actually it’s 1.2% of borough residents… Yet, at the same time, we have Conservative politicians complaining that the Trade Unions are calling strikes when <50% of the members voted, so what gives???

        As I've said previously, this isn't about cleaning up the streets… If that was the case, Cllr Hall would be sending some of her neighbourhood busybodies out with buckets of hot soapy water.

        This is actually about the exercise of power and Harrow's politicians stamping their authority on the residents, trying to pretend to us that that they are our masters, rather than our servants.

        1. garth

          THAT IS SO SO TRUE AND THAT’S JUST THE BEGINNING IM AFRAID SUSAN SUSAN AND HER LIKE WANT NOTHING MORE THAN TOTALITARIANISM IMPLEMENTED THEY ARE ALL NEOPHYTES SAUL ALINSKI IF SHE ISNT STOPPED AND EXPOSED THE FUTURE ISN’T GOING TO BE VERY PLEASANT PLEASE CHECK OUT ICLEI AND AGENDA 21 VERY SHOCKING.

  7. garth

    oh well said dude well said come on susie answer the man you cant keep ignoring everyone or is posing for photos more important than answering the really important issues im still waiting for your answer on agenda 21 AND ICLEI AND YOUR AWARENESS AND INVOLVEMENT WITH BOTH im sure you have nothing to hide do you susie .

    1. Harrow Dude

      Over to you Susie…

  8. Gary Roberts

    I have said it before and I will say it again. The council will never bring in a spitting ban. As it is totally unenforceable. How many people have ever been prosecuted for dropping litter or allowing their dogs to foul the pavements? Both of which are finable offences. As for a borough wide alcohol exclusion zone. Please do not make me laugh, as even the police just walk past the drunks without saying a word. I have seen them with my own eyes. There are drunks in Northolt Rd each and every day outside the library and Costa coffee on the benches. & behind the shops. Until I actually see someone prosecuted I wont ever believe a word Harrow council say.

  9. mike mcfadden

    Gary and Harrow Dude, I think your being a bit unkind to Mrs Hall after all she is trying, First I think your wrong about a litter fine, Harrow apparently doesn’t have one. However, the amount of drunks seen drinking on our streets is unacceptable. It may be acceptable in backward cultures but NOT here! Further, I would like to see an end to signs and council literature written in different languages and interpreters paid for by tax-payers. We can no longer afford to keep paying for others that don’t, won’t help themselves. Those that need interpreters can have them provided by councils/Law enforcement /NHS etc but they must pay for the service themselves or move to a country that speaks the language they use. After all said and done this is England and millions around the world speak it very well so its an affront to have people living here unable or unwilling to communicate and expecting the tax-payer to foot the costs. It seems Harrow has got a long way to go to pull itself back from the abyss but I’m sure it will.

  10. Harrow Dude

    Mike firstly I do agree with you Susie is trying.
    However i think you will find that there are by-laws associated with littering, dog fouling, fly tipping etc the problem has always been with the enforcement of of these regulations I don’t Harrow has the required resources. Susie talks a good pre-election talk but ask her how she is going to make it work and the silence is deafening.

    Could you explain what you mean ” drinking on our streets is unacceptable. It may be acceptable in backward cultures but NOT here!”

    If memory serves me correctly there was a cohort of Harrowvians who used to frequent the corner of the church on Station Road. I believe it was referred to as the front room amongst the local street drinkers and the authorities alike.

  11. mike mcfadden

    Don’t know what station road but I’m talking about the amount of people drinking alcohol as they walk the streets may be to and from a bar or just beds in sheds groups out for a stroll. Who ever they are they show scant regard for our way of life and just throw can’s bottles and most anything. Putting up signs in 6 different languages is costly and serves no purpose. Put the signs up but in English only. Same with voting papers etc. Because you’ll always have the joker that says its not in my language or not in my dialect don’t understand. If they cant read election papers don’t vote. Can’t read benefit rules don’t claim benefits. If they can’t or wont speak English how are they going to get work and support themselves and family? In my view Harrow caused many of these problems by taking in failed asylum seekers and “lost children” Those that caused unnecessary cost to the tax-payers of Harrow should be made to pay. Like Westminster went after Lady Cohen “home for vote” It must be alleged Harrow sent out a message, welfare for votes!! Its not rocket science. These councils need to use more common-sense and less common-purpose. You know it makes sense.!

    1. mike mcfadden

      Ha ha ha slight mistake Ms Cohen the heir to Tesco’s Was actually Lady Porter. To save confusion.

  12. Susan Hall

    Harrow Dude thank you, sincerely, for accepting that I am indeed desperately trying to make sure this happens whatever the outcome of the election. We have looked into the ability of enforcers to actually enforce littering and spitting by fixed penalty notice and this can be done. We need to consult first but hopefully that will pass. We have also looked into getting a separate company to come in and enforce on these offences. This too will work but has to go through consultation. Hopefully, subject to public proval we will do this and the Littering and thus spitting will be enforceable. To change the by law I had to prove that the public were behind the initiative. This has now been done and hopefully we will be able to do this as well.

    I have been working on so many different initiatives over the last 7 months but hopefully residents will understand that I want to make harrow safer cleaner, safer and fairer and its my mission so to do.

    1. garth

      and who might the private company be susie g4s? would you please answer my question about iclei and agenda 21 and your involvement with both because their policies and implementation of an incremental totally controlled populace every where coincides nicely with your vision of booze bans spitting bans etc and an ever increasing high vis police presence it seems to me susie that it wont be long until you want free speech banned ORWELL ANYONE.

  13. Timeforchange

    Whatever your political preference Susan has done so much for Harrow during the past 7 months and really made a difference. Thank you Susan. I can’t think of anything positive that labour did whilst in control!

  14. Stop It - The Pair Of You!

    Harrow Dude – You must have ground your axe so many times now it must be getting blunt, and that chip on your shoulder must be very wearing.

    Perhaps you, (for once), have some suggestions for improvement rather than knock, knock, knocking someone who is trying to improve Harrow? Easy to have a go at someone isn’t it, but what are YOU going to do about anything ?

    Garth – You’re clearly a nutter, please stop posting on here, grow up, and try living in the real world.

  15. garth

    a nutter? for asking questions hmm for your information i live very much in the real world WITH BOTH EYES OPEN that’s why i ask questions over the blatant installment by agent provocateurs within the council of the framework for the coming police state because i asked questions of iclei and agenda 21 i am nutter? no sir my father told me SON YOU KNOW WHEN YOU ARE OVER THE TARGET (YOU START TAKING HEAVY FLAK) MIGHT I SUGGEST THAT YOU ARE THE NUTTER FOR BEING SO BLIND please look up iclei and agenda 21 why wont susan answer me ill tell you IM VERY CLOSE TO THE TRUTH AND YOU’RE RATTLED .

  16. Concerned Harrovian

    I agree with Stop it – The Pair of You.

    If you read Garth’s comments under the article “Labour would get rid of Neighbourhood Champions” you will see just kind of nutter Garth is as he pours out vitriol against women.

    A quick and easy way to demolish the council owned garages is to get groups of women to stand in front of the garages and let them know what Garth says about himself. The vibrations from the gales of laughter would bring down the walls of Jericho never mind Harrow garages.

    He is so deluded that he thinks that women need to take cold showers and flagellation to avoid thinking about his genitalia. Dream on laddie and I suggest you spell genitalia correctly. I suggest if he were to indulge in flagellation he uses any publications by Alan Watts. He should study serious philosophers such as David Hume or Baruch Spinoza not lightweights such as Alan Watts. .

    I suspect Garth’s delusions may arise from probably following the practice of Alan Watts to indulge in the taking of copious amounts of alcohol and mescaline.

    Regarding his comments about Susan Hall and female councillors, methinks he doth protest too much and harbours a secret desire to fall at the feet of women in authority hence his Freudian slip about wether.

    I suggest we rename the play “Morgan – A Suitable Case for Treatment” to Garth –A Suitable Case for Treatment. Flower arrangers could help him with the flower bed in which the flowers are arranged in the shape of a hammer and sickle.

    Please tell us which political party you support so we can all boycott it when we vote.

    1. garth

      well where to start firstly please refrain from calling people nutters that term is highly offensive and derogatory to the mentally ill philosophically i am a student of marten Heidegger and ayn rand now Spinoza Baruch? please!!! as to the hammer and sickle i think that it is you who will be wielding both if you continue to follow the teachings of saul alinsky a true light weight . must i reiterate once again for you in your dotage that i have nothing against women it is the overall agenda that i am attempting to bring to peoples attention the fact that you keep harking back to an old post and repeating yourself about Freudian slips is frankly boring and grossly inaccurate take a time out refresh your mind and library and drag yourself if possible into the light of the 21st century very hard for a curmudgeon as you i appreciate try to be objective not reactive .I WILL CONTINUE TO QUESTION AND CHALLENGE THE FORCES OF OPPRESSION REGARDLESS OF COWARDS AND WEAKLINGS LIKE YOU WHO JUST FOLLOW THE HERD SUCKLING FROM THE TEAT OF YOUR MASTER FOR YOUR DAILY BREAD .FOR I AM AN INDIVIDUAL SOMETHING YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND BECAUSE IT TAKES COURAGE.

  17. sonoo malkani

    Absolutely appalled by the lack of control,displayed by so many in using language and nastiness hitherto unheard of in all my years in Harrow.Not only is it undignified but also totally unproductive.YOU ARE ALL LETTING HARROW DOWN!

    Surely those contributing must have enough common-sense to realise that abusing ANYBODY in such a derogatory manner is hardly going to make them receptive to your questions and will instead put their backs up.

    It’s high time this non-sense STOPPED.You are only earning a bad name for Harrow,no thanks to the outpourings of pure,unadulterated hatred,on a daily basis.Makes one wonder who the offender is and who the offended!

    Please stop blowing to smithereens the reputation of ALL decent,peace-loving Harrovians to score cheap personal goals.Anyone reading these remarks could be forgiven for thinking we are a bunch of “no-no’s”.This borough is known for its education and culture.Please let’s not make ourselves look like a bunch of illiterate,unpolished folk.

    We have every right to question,but not to ABUSE and slander.PLEASE calm down and observe some decorum. Amidst all the hullabaloo and rubbishing of people one forgets what the topic in question is!We must steer clear of the accusations and allegations —which are precisely that—and focus of the ISSUES.

    I know it’s the height of fashion today for the public to knock politicians.It’s more or less become the norm for the disenchanted members of public to LOVE to HATE POLITICIANS.

    Undeniably,far too many have let their team down badly,and decimated the reputation of excellent ones,in the bargain.This needs to be redressed urgently by the POLITICIANS themselves.The in-fighting has brought in its wake an ugliness not envisioned.Frankly it is self-destructive.They must call a truce and set firm boundaries which must not be flouted or be prepared to perish.The public has really had it and are sick and tired of the diatribe.

    This is a worrisome world-wide phenomena and not at all fair on those who truly wish to serve the public.Just look at elections anywhere in the world–in particular India right now—and you will appreciate what I am saying.Such a turn-off!What price progress?

    In an ideal world we look to politicians and public figures to set high standards.However,there’s no law or by law stating this cannot be done by the public.Standards will only be maintained if we ALL adhere to them.

    I hope you will all forgive me —some of you may feel I am very naive and “green” —-for pleading with you to just keep your cool and deal with whatever issues are troubling us WITH DIGNITY.and patience.

    I have already heartily endorsed the spitting ban since it is both environmentally friendly and a HUGE help health-wise,preventing the spread of horrid infectious diseases such as TUBERCOLOSIS(TB).Please recognise the enormous benefit to your community’s health and well-being and rise above personal pettiness.

  18. mike mcfadden

    Sonoo, learn to control yourself. People have every right to complain about the dreadful running of the council prior to Mrs Hall without your melodramatics. Being offended does not make you right!! Harrow has obtain a dreadful reputation of failing the tax-payer and the home owner occupier. The growth of HMO’s and bed in shed’s alone with the benefit culture dumping of rubbish, spitting drinking on our streets is appalling. Harrow council must change course and attract the right people not scroungers looking for a free hand out. Many people arriving here don’t understand what was once our freedom. They think freedom means a free car, free house, free mobile phone free sky tv etc. Well it does not!!! In the real world there is no such thing as a free lunch. If you can’t pay for it YOU can’t have it. Time to wake-up and smell the coffee. Britain almost went belly-up in 2008 next time which is not far off we might not be so lucky. Time to say NO to housing benefits for under 30 year old’s and NO to a life style better then most working on benefits.

  19. sonoo malkani

    Mike mcfadden.I have no idea who you are but you have NOT understood me at all.You have managed to jump to the wrong conclusion.I am very much a SUPPORTER of changes brought in by Cllr Hall to halt the insanity we have been experiencing in Harrow.

    Of course,people should be allowed to complain.I merely pleaded we should NOT BE ABUSIVE OR OFFENSIVE and stand by it.Can’t understand why you find that melodramatic!

    I am TOTALLY against scroungers,takers and those who exploit honest citizens and tax-payers like the rest of us.I would be the first one to make sure that those who like taking us for a ride are dealt with most firmly and punishment meted out commensurate with their actions—as in the case of beds in sheds and what nots..The list of abuse perpetrated by these people is endless and must be halted PRONTO.I am all for it,like most law-abiding citizens.

    You have definitely got the wrong end of the stick!I suggest you do your home-work before accusing me of supporting those who suck the lifeblood of our country.

    I firmly believe in the principle of “grit and grind ” and would never encourage people sitting on their derriere ,living off the state,because it’s more beneficial than an honest days work.We have been a “soft touch” for far too long and have to take tough action to ensure those of us who love this country keep the wolves at bay and restore the balance of the society we all cherish. Enough is enough.

  20. mike mcfadden

    Sonoo, I am a tax-payer that has lived in Harrow nearly 40 years and I want the voice’s of tax-payer’s heard above the crowed!! No such thing as a free lunch so why has previous council leaders taken us down a road to ruin? Why are Harrow’s employees paying themselves far in excess of their worth. Like those of Michael Lockwood? I’m pleased Mrs Hall got rid of him but why was he paid £4,000 per week? There are other very serious questions that need to be answered relating to Harrow council.

  21. MysticMeg

    I hear the deafening silence in response to Mike McFadden asking why we paid Michael Lockwood £4,000 per week ? Yes, I’m afraid free lunches on the tax payer are the order of the day at Harrow Council and to cast our vote at the elections for any of these thieving Councillors is frankly an insult to democracy.

    1. garth

      yes meg £4000 a week whilst spending at least two hours a day jogging round harrow and riding his exercise bike in his office traning for triathlones good gig eh no wonder he was always grinning

  22. sonoo malkani

    Mike Mcfadden,like yourself I am a tax-payer and long-term resident of Harrow.In fact,I have lived here since 1972 and seen many changes,some good and others which regretfully have not been to our benefit.I am sure neither one of us would like our borough to be turned upside down no thanks to fraudsters,benefit cheats or any category of criminal.

    I agree whole-heartedly that the VOICE of the tax-payers must be HEARD and actions taken only after GENUINE CONSULTATION occurs.Far too much has been thrust on us,creating mistrust.This is easily avoidable if citizens from all sections of our community are encouraged to contribute and are engaged respectfully.We have many public meetings but not enough outreach so the same faces keep cropping up.Our youth have made great strides via the Harrow Youth Parliament but they could have a bigger role in the affairs of our community if we gave them that chance.

    In forty years of volunteering I have spent at least the past two decades engaging actively with Harrow Council.There has been so much happening in the past two years making our heads spin.Result ,it has simply left the ordinary man and woman on the street totally confused and feeling unsure of what’s coming next.That is most regrettable.

    MysticMeg,it’s no use saying we don’t need ANY Councillors or resort to abusing them.ISolves nothing.In fact,we are required to focus more LOCALLY and solve our own matters via the Local Authority.More power has been vested in each of our elected representatives so they should be made more answerable.They owe it to the tax-payers and to local citizens.

    What is badly needed is a more robust INDEPENDENT mechanism which allows local citizens to make their Councillors fully accountable,together with TRANSPARENCY about issues impacting on the quality of the lives of ordinary citizens.Decisions taken by elected Councillors have huge implications, often long-term ,and must be rigorously tested.

    We must assume that they are there to SERVE the community and only take to task those who fail to keep their word.Some of you will probably tell me I am living on cloud nine but I still believe we must allow every person the benefit of the doubt, unless proven to the contrary.

    Not voting will achieve nothing.Use your vote very carefully,having searched your hearts about the promises being made by each of your local candidates.May the best person win!

  23. MysticMeg

    Sonoo Malkani I have not abused any Councillors! I do agree an independent mechanism should be implemented in allowing more transparency. However, you know very well that no matter how hard we try, we will not get it. Our Councillors have no interest in anything other than having the glory of being elected. Try writing a letter of complaint, or trying to resolve a local issue with one of them and see how effective their role is. To date, their score card is poor, I am not persuaded that any of them deserve my vote. That way whoever gets in and fails, I wont feel responsible for voting for my own misery.

    1. mike mcfadden

      MisticMeg, May I suggest the reason Harrow became a slum is because honest people failed to vote. As Albert Einstein said, All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men/women to do nothing!! And they can’t call him Racist or Homophobic or any other bigoted slur to detour free speech. England was once free. We must get those freedoms back!!!! Use your vote!!! No to communism no matter what shape or form.

  24. sonoo malkani

    To vote or not to vote–that is your prerogative MysticMeg.You referred to them as “thieving Councillors”.I call that abuse,not a compliment!

    1. PraxisReform

      Perhaps MysticMeg should have said negligent (despite the fact that there seems to have been quite a few cases of Harrow politicians involved in fraudulent activity over the past few years), since these people are being paid good money to supposedly represent the area:

      Yet, we see neither hide nor hair of most of these politicians till the month before the election, and even then nobody will explain to me why we actually need 63 Councillors – to which I can only guess that most of them are lazy scroungers prepared to sit back, collect their cheque and let the usual faces do the work…

      Which is likely the reason why I can’t tell a political difference between any of the candidates that are standing in my area, and honestly feel that whoever gets in, there will be no substantive benefit to the area.

      So, what we really need is less politicians, not more of them… Let’s have the best and hardest working politicians running Harrow, not the current cabal of family alliances, Freemasons, dubious cliques and other dead wood that we seem to have standing for election across the borough.

      A “none of the above” option on the ballot paper would certainly be a good start, to help raise the turnout.

      1. garth

        well said praxis at last someone who can see the coruption for what it is freemasons indeed and o lot more belive me i salute you sir .

  25. MysticMeg

    Mike you are missing the point. I don’t enjoy the prospect of withholding my vote. Always voted since I was eligible to do so. My difficulty is not knowing who to vote for as none of them have persuaded me that they can change Harrow. My only option would be to rock up to the polling station and spoil my vote. That is the same as not voting if I am honest.

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