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Feb 17 2015

Susan Says: Administrations Needs to Listen to Residents on Parking

susan_hallHarrow Council may be set to reverse a last minute change to parking restrictions in Malvern Gardens and Winchester Road, after local residents submitted a petition against the plans.

At October’s meeting of the Traffic and Road Safety Advisory Panel (TARSAP), an officer recommendation for a Monday-Sunday 8am-midnight controlled parking zone (based on consultation responses from residents) was amended by the majority Labour Group – to only cover 6-pm midnight. However, local residents were furious with this change because this was not what they wanted. They argued the new restrictions wouldn’t do enough to address problems caused by commuters and employees of nearby companies parking in the roads from the early hours, and submitted a petition to the February meeting of TARSAP calling for the original timing to be reinstated.

The residents were supported in their petition by Conservative Group Leader Cllr. Susan Hall, who spoke on their behalf at the February meeting. Cllr. Hall said: “The upshot of the residents’ petition is that the Chairman of TARSAP and the Cabinet member are now going to have a very serious discussion about un-picking the original decision. I was quite frankly baffled when the Labour Group decided they knew best and changed the timings at the last minute back in October, when the original recommendation had been carefully worked out by officers after extensive consultation.”

20150217_hall_picCllr. Hall added: “Now that TARSAP has agreed more work needs to be done on this, my hope is that a solution can be found as soon as possible which satisfies the needs and concerns of local residents. They’ve been resolute in demonstrating what they believe their roads need, and I hope that the administration listens to them.”

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31 comments

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  1. Dave fuller

    We have had twenty years of commuter parking and it has just got worse over the years, the commuter parking starts as early as 6-30 in the morning, and also blocking your driveways, then in the evenings we have parking problems with the restaurant come public house along honeypot Lane, and then the noise when they leave after midnight,we will not stop until we get the time we asked for.

  2. Mike N

    I sometimes wonder if anyone who works for Harrow council or any other council for that matter have a clue when it comes to parking. Above is a case that clearly needs the correct parking regulations to relieve the blight of commuter parking but the council get it wrong! Then at the other end of the scale Harrow council have this obsession with the colour yellow and go around painting double yellow lines on roads and quiet street corners, where there has never been a problem with parked cars and probably never will be. I bet we all know a road or street corner that have had yellow lines painted recently and can’t fathom out why.
    From a bystander point of view it appears that whoever decides on parking restrictions and yellow line painting lack one fundamental thing………common sense!
    Don’t get me started on parking regulations,meters and over zealous wardens that have stopped people from using certain shopping high streets, turning them into run down areas.

  3. Someonewhocares

    Can someone from the area involved -Malvern/Winchester- please post their rationale up on here and explain their 8am-midnight request, as it does seem very harsh. From the map you are not near the station or the pubs or have we missed something? Why not 24 hours, why only 16, and did most folks on your roads actually want this or was it just ‘a significant few’?

  4. Dipen Shah

    I am very thankful to Susan for raising this as an issue to the council. I live a few doors away from Dave and as Dave has mentioned, the parking on the road is terrible and has certainly been getting worse. I still can not understand why the original decision on the consultation was changed.

    I hope that the peition sends out a strong message on this issue … and that it is considered by the decision makers!

    1. Someonewhocares

      Thanks for the comment – as I did not realise that the first note was from a resident. Your roads seem quite isolated though so where are all those commuters going?

      If it is just a commuter issue then a restriction of an hour in the a.m. or p.m, would stop it surely; What is different about your roads that needs a 16-hour restriction?

  5. Someonewhocares

    Ok, according to this:

    https://www.harrow.gov.uk/www2/documents/s116903/TABLED%20document.pdf

    In fact many residents had formally objected to the ‘excessive constraints’ of 8-midnight?

  6. Gill

    Apart from commuters leaving their cars to get trains from Queensbury Station, employees from local companies leave their vehicles in Malvern Gardens, we also have lorries parking at all times of the day going to the local nearby cafe, also The Spice Rack is at the top of the road, that is why we need the restriction for long hours.

  7. Dave fuller

    This only involves the top half of Malvern Gardens 48 houses and 39 voted for it to be put back to its original time, when ever there is sport on at the spice rack and summer nights we cannot park in our road, our get out of our drives, then when they leave the noise shouting and car doors slamming, also we have cars left here all over the weekend , this is why we need cover all day and every day, we are sick and tired of it.

  8. Someonewhocares

    Well if they block your drive it is obstruction of course and they can be reported/moved. Noted from the figures above (for/against, 8am-midnight) it moved from 46 vs.12 to 44 vs.40 though; Why was that?

    Incidentally who are your ‘own’ Councillors and what have they had to contribute to this?

  9. Someonewhocares

    Ah – I found the reference about the change of vote numbers in the same document::

    – Winchester Road – 11 objections received associated with excessive control
    times and a handful concerned about the inconvenience and cost for visitors.

    – Malvern Gardens – 7 objections received associated with excessive control
    times and inconvenience and cost for visitors.

    Guess a growing number of folks just found that 8am-midnight ‘excessive’ then and so raised formal objections to this?

  10. Dave fuller

    You want to live down our road, I gave you the petition from 48 houses that it infects and 39 signed for the 8am till midnight, commuters during the day pub come resturant evenings, plus the noise late when they leave, a reserve councillor sat in the last meeting from queensbury ward not sat on any other meeting and put this time forward, and funny thing happened the numbers came back diffrent, and the labour councillors voted it in all were labour but they still went against the majority, I beleave if there’s a majority of 1 it still should of passed, in our eyes our ward councillors need to take a long hard look at them selves.

  11. Dave fuller

    Someonewhocares sound like a councillor to us.

  12. Someonewhocares

    Hillarious!; No, NOT a councillor, just Someonewhocares enough to look at the details on the council web site, and then to note there was a strong trend against 8am-midnight!. FWIW I think that even 6pm-midnight is excessive, but at least when visitors to your neighbours realise they will have to pay to park there in the evenings they now know who to blame!

    Majority is a subjective term if only 20% or 30% of residents actually voted.

  13. Dave fuller

    Yes they all no they will need to pay, but at leased they will be able to park and not in someone’s else’s road.

    1. Someonewhocares

      Surely many will probably only know when they first visit? Many find out the hard way: Pretty sure the ‘CEOs’ will be all over it!

      Did visiting folks also know that they would have to pay for 3 vouchers to park all day with the 8am-midnight scheme – morning plus afternoon plus evening?

      1. Dave fuller

        It the people they are visiting that have payed for the books that will give them a permit not Vice versa, this way our Family and friends can park near not in another road.

  14. Someonewhocares

    The real and key point then is that YOU would have to pay £5/day for them to park with a 8am-midnight restriction, which is one of the reasons no doubt that folks did not like it?

  15. Gill

    If ‘someonewhocares’ lived in our road, they would know exactly how we and our neighbours are affected and have been for many, many years. Some of us have lived here all our lives and parking just gets worse and worse.

    1. Dave fuller

      £5 is well worth it, would just like to take someonewhocares back to our patition for our road and only the houses that it will involve 48 and and out of those 48 39 wanted it, I think that’s what the residents won’t , it’s great that someonewhocares, as our residents care for a better life style.

  16. Someonewhocares

    Again I don’t doubt there are problems, but was that that 8am-midnight CPZ really the best ‘solution’? There was clearly a movement away from such an extreme measures by many of your neighbours though; Why?

  17. Someonewhocares

    And, also again, what about the rest of the road who would be affected by this.?

    1. Dave fuller

      The bottom of the road there is no were to park as there are all driveways, as to your first question, the reason the vote changed we are told the Queensferry ward councillor did a walk around, and only on the opposite Side of honeypot lane and came back with these figures, but did not consult Keinton East residence, then he sat on the last TARSAP meeting as a reserve counsellor and as most of the counsellors are labour put a new time and they all voted for, but they did not let the Kenton’s residence no, we’re there was a majority for.

  18. Dipen Shah

    It is Easy for someone who does not live on the road to query and question. This is fine although it is the people who actually live in the vicinity that really know what is happening to the area in question. Anybody can look at maps and draw a conclusion but it is the people on the ground that really know the situation.

    I regularly plan look at location assessments for healthcare services as one of my many roles. In one example the person who developed the assessment insisted that all there should be a pharmacy in a certain area. Looking at the data that he provided showed that this would indeed have been comsistent with the demographics and healthcare indicators. It is only when we looked in to this further when one resident pointed out that the application would mean that the pharmacy would be built inside a park!!

    Maps are only useful up to a certain extent.

    Also, there are several other factors.

    1) I have two children (young ones) and I regularly have to park all the way down the other side of the gardens (at least a 5 minute walk) because of the parking situation. Is this honestly fair?
    2) Take into account the point above when considering frail and elderly who also live on our road. Is this fair to them?
    3) High vans regularly obscure the view of oncoming traffic on the road from early morning. There have been several occasions when I have had to pull my young ones back from the road in order to avoid them from being hit by oncoming traffic simply because I can’t see the road
    4) the pub down the road (especially on game nights and weeks) mean that even finding parking on the other side of malvern gardens is very difficult. See point 1 and 2 above.
    5) Regular commuters to Queensbury station even block driveways as well as take up a huge portion of the parking on the road. Residents therefore have to also put up with this.

    So you want to know why morning to evening? That is the answer. Morning because of vans from Selco, during the day because of commuters and in the evening because of the pub opposite.

    Can’t get much clearer than that.

  19. Someonewhocares

    Thank you for comprehensive reply, Looks like the key issues then are fairness, safety and convenience. If it is all so obvious however I still do not understand why so many of your neigbours voted against that original 8am-midnight proposal.

    I will come and take a look myself but the others who need to be convinced of this are your ‘own’ three Councillors of course.

  20. Dipen Shah

    Please do come along and have a look. Remember that the day you come along may not be representative of what actually happens.

    For the sake of transparency, Dave, Gill and I have been very open and honest about our interests in this and our own identities. We are residents. It would only be fair if you would reciprocate instead of hiding behind a pseudo-name . At least this way we can help you understand better and help us understand your own objections better too.

  21. Someonewhocares

    Will do! Note, again, that I am ‘just a resident’ too…..but at least the ‘pseudo-name’ (Someonewhocares) tells you how I think though!

  22. Dipen Shah

    This is not just an issue for just Malvern Garden residents either. I drop my kids off to school and even today there was a huge orange lorry on the T-junction that left children and parents with no other option but to cross without a good view of the road. In addition, this was in the middle of the rush hour with traffic coming from three different directions. Not exactly the safest of areas is it?

    I am sure that you will agree that this situation is not something that should be allowed to continue. You may even have seen it yourself had you decided to do your visit this morning.

    This issue goes beyond just us.

    I look forward to hearing from the results of your inspection.

  23. Someonewhocares

    As you may be aware there is H/C ‘guidance’ saying we should not park within 10m of such junctions anyway, but it seems this is not generally not enforced unless yellow lines are used. The council tend to use this issue as part of their rationale for introducing CPZs but there is no reason why such lines should not be used anyway for safety purposes.= of course

    Still to ‘inspect’ but certainly will do over the w/e!

  24. Someonewhocares

    Well I popped by yesterday afternoon with the following observations:

    See all the ‘lines’ are in but not the ‘signs’ – yet. Even this should help as the folks who (only) park there will be confused by it! (Surprised to be told by your neighbours that the Selco staff are not allowed to use their own car-park, though)
    Looks like you lost a few spaces due to the bay lay-out, too

    What will happen next is clear enough, displaced parkers – and these will be your neighbours, Selco staff, Honeypot Restaurant customers, commuters etc, will just park at the bottom of your roads instead. Then they will want CPZs too of course, that how the Council work, once they have ‘shoed-in’ a CPZ the infections spread!

    Suggest you just see how this 6pm-midnight scheme works out, and if it doesn’t , then get onto TARSAP (and Cllr. Sachin Shah) again to have the times extended. Even one hour in the a.m. or p.m. should do it if needed (at least as far as Selco and commuters are concerned). And don’t accept the council’s claim if they start all their standard ‘the zone can not be extended’ rubbish, either !

  25. Dave fuller

    Nice to see your back with out letting us no who you are,can I just say we do not won’t to see how the 6 to midnight works our fight is to get it back to what it was, and as for Sachin Shah he has nothing to do with kenton East ward, why don’t you come down again and meet with us then we can air our views with you face to face, instead of wrighting on here.

  26. Someonewhocares

    Well I visited a full 10 DAYS ago, spending some of my OWN time, doing this as a mere resident, and this is your response – personal criticism? Oh well, sorry I actually bothered now. Sachin Shah is your nearest TARSAP (reserve) member

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